From: mc3 <mctrey@REMOVEusa.net> Subject: Re: Consequences Are Up To EVERYBODY INVOLVED (was: A proposal to stop the abuse of the parasites Date: 12 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
Rat & Swan wrote: > > mc3 wrote: > > > > Rat & Swan wrote: > > > No. I am very happy with the cease-fire. I am pleased that it is > > > continuing. > > > Does this mean you agree with Bodvarr and Hnikar that Meow > > has maintained the ceasefire? > > To a point, yes. The cross=posting has begun again, on a much reduced > scale, and ASI has posted frequently in the Nose.
Then why don't I see ASI when I read the Nose?
> Things are calmER, but > there is still background irritation present. However, both sides HAVE > kept it down and I'm glad for that. > > > > However, since the group is now embroiled in a trollfest > > > with Savage Innocence, it is not the group I am interested in. ASI seems > > > hellbent on wrecking the accord and I have seen responses to him that > > > threaten to re-ignite the situation. > > > > Do you consider "Savage Innocence" a Meower? > > ASI "claims" not to be a meower, and yet he posts in afk-mn.
From where I'm reading these groups (newsguy.com), I see ASI all the time in alt.religion.asatru but not at all in the Nose.
> I don't > know what to make of him/her other than to say that s/he is trolling and > anoying people, and trying to destroy the accord.
I don't know about trolling: ASI seems to be more of a "mission poster" to me. I agree, though, that ASI is plenty annoying. Since I have no way of making ASI shut up, I simply don't read the threads in which ASI posts.
> > > Since I do NOT want to be the one > > > who starts it all over again, I'm off to greener pastures. I'm glad the > > > ceasefire *seems* to be holding, but with my skimpy newsfeed it looks > > > worse than it is. > > > If your skimpy newsfeed makes alt.religion.asatru look "worse > > than it is," on whose word are you relying when you say "the > > ceasefire *seems* to be holding?" > > Well, you stated that it is. So I'm taking you at your word. Should I?
You didn't seem to take my word for it that ASI is not a Meower.
> Others have said it is. Instead of simply yelling "No it's NOT!" based > on my own server, I have relied on the evidence others give that it is > holding. The last time I reacted badly to something, it turned out that > my server's scant feed was to blame, so I'm not making that mistake > again. Since all I seem to be getting is a long mess of nothing but ASI > and people arguing with hir, I'm backing off the group. Would you rather > I stayed and blew up again? I'm acting in as much to keep the accord by > leaving.
Truth be told, I was hoping that you would have posted a followup about yours and Rat's anniversary celebrations, or even acknowledged the sincere good wishes extended to you on the occasion by at least two Meowers.
> > > > Anyway, that has nothing to do with my decision to > > > fight mewo in court. None at all. I stated openly that the ceasefire is > > > with regards to ONLINE activities. I have not for an instant stated that > > > I will stop fighting meow as an enetity, only that I will not flame or > > > fight them online during the ceasefire. > > > You made no such statement of any intent to continue your > > RL efforts when you first called for the ceasefire on the > > evening of 30 November 1999. You merely asked all people of > > good will to stop flaming for two weeks. > > I'm sorry you see it that way. Fact is, it is immaterial to me if you > like, dislike or don't care about it. I'm not angry anymore, just > determined. IF Meow ceases to behave as they have, they have nothing to > fear. If they continue, so will I.
The Meowers stopped. Apparently, you did not.
> > Not that I give a > > flying fuck about your absurd threats of legal action or bad > > karma, because I actually find them mildly humorous. > > Laugh if you like.
I said *mildly* humorous. Unlike your work in a.t., which can still make me laugh so hard that my innards turn into Liquishitz<tm>.
> I'm sure that of Kliebold and Dylan and other > students who have been harassed and tormented, stated their objections > to such treatment, people would laugh at them. In fact, I rather hope > you continue to laugh. Enjoy it. Those who have been laughed AT for so > many years don't share your opinion.
You've made this point more eloquently at least ten other times, Swan.
> > But I > > can't hide that I was not thrilled to discover that the > > ceasefire initiative that I immediately and openly embraced > > was presented under false pretenses. > > Hardly. I called for an online ceasefire and it happened. I promised > that I would not flame or harass anyone online and I asked both sides to > cease hostilities. They did. Meow continues to harass other groups and > flame and troll,
I see. Now that Meow has ceased, at your request, to flame people on your newsgroup, you have suddenly decided to take up the cause of all the other newsgroups you deem to be suffering from the infestations of the Evil Meowers. One of the groups you deem to be so afflicted, IIRC, is alt.cuddle. Did you read any of the responses from cuddlers who pointed out that so far from *causing* a so-called invasion of this group, Wombat and I actually stopped one dead in its tracks?
> and my efforts are *there* not on ara. I want it > stopped, many other people want it stopped, and we'll do what we can. > People who harass others online should not be surprised when those > persons finally get their belly full and act.
It amuses me that your belly has suddenly swollen up in the midst of a successful ceasefire.
> > > You see, having *lived* the fight in RL against RL tormentors and > > > bullies for 12 years in the educational system, and having been treated > > > in RL the way Meowers treat people online, I KNOW what causes > > > Littletons! > snip > > > Call me the Elie Wiesel of the Internet, > > > Like hell I will. The real Elie Wiesel would be disgusted > > at the apologia for Hitler and the Third Reich you posted in > > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=546516611 > > I leave that link in because I atand behind EVERY word I said there. > Are you planning to ban Volkswagens? I don't see Meowers out picketting > the Autobahn. You will NOTE that I said, vehemently that H*tler and crew > were evil and what they did was wrong.
Here's what you actually said in http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=546516611 :
"Was the Nazi regime evil? I don't know. Was the Final Solution
evil? Hell YES! What the Nazis DID was horrendous, reprehensible
and wrong. However, to throw it ALL out would be utterly foolish."
It appears that while you regard SOME of the Nazis' actions as evil, you don't necessarily think that the *Nazi regime* was evil. I can assure you that Elie Wiesel believes that the Nazi regime was evil.
> What I *said* was that there WAS > a reason the German people supported him. You cannot deny any of what I > wrote. The man was scum, but many of the things created during that > period were good. If you truly feel that *everything* created between > 1933 and 1945 in Germany were entirely evil, you need to advocate the > bombing of all buildings built during that time and the incarceration of > all people who lived during that time. ALL of them. > > I don't see you doing that. And re-read my final statement. It stands.
And read (for the first time, I assume) the response I posted in response to your article on the same day that you posted yours. It can be found at http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=546744494 and it, too, stands.
> > > but I say that the "Let's go tease the wierdos" mindset is an > > > invitation to violence and murder and it WILL stop! It is not funny, it > > > is not socially constructive and it WILL stop. The only reason that > > > Littleton didn't happen in MY highschool when I was a student was > > > because I did not hqave access to a gun. I'm an adult now and past that, > > > but I will fight the conditions that foster such torment with every > > > breath in my body. If necessary, this is lifelong. > > > Yawn. > > As youl like. You will never understand and I don't care if you do.
I understand precisely what you're talking about. I have gotten back at all the zitfaced punks who pissed me off in high school by living well. Despite your deteriorating vision, for which you have my deep sympathy, you seem to have a happy life with a loving partner and devoted friends. You seem to be living well. What I don't understand is why you feel so put upon.
> > > I won't flame Meow online and I won't engage them online. I'll take it > > > to the police, the courts, the government, anywhere and everywhere I can > > > to see that it ends. And that has nothing to do with the ceasefire. The > > > ceasefire is still in effect, but the Meowers remain active. > > > Bodvarr and Hnikar seem to disagree with you on this count. > > I wouldn't know. I haven't looked in on the group for three days.
How convenient. For you, that is.
> > > It WILL stop. > > > All I know for a fact is that the ceasefire ends at 12:01 AM > > Wednesday. I would be most interested in hearing what, if any, > > reasons (besides your usual legal and RL threats, of course) > > you would advance for the continuation of the ceasefire past > > this time. If you want the ceasefire to continue, that is. > > I hope it does. I hope it does for the sake of those still on the > group. But the *premise* behind Meowing "Let's go tease the wierdos" is
Great squicking Glub on the ampallanged churd of Tobias Click, Swan! We who Meow ARE the weirdos! Okay, except for Dirk and maybe Lavrans, who are pretty weird too. But you Asatruar tend to be everyday schmucks who work for a living and pay taxes and go home to the wife or husband and play with the kids or the cats or both. We don't tease you because you're weird or different. We tease dumbasses like Lavrans because they can't help walking into it.
> still active and evident in other groups. THAT is what I oppose and > will oppose until it ceases. Not a threat. If I met you face to face, I > would offer you no harm at all. I have no anger toward you personally. > You are probably a decent sort. It's the ACTIONS you endorse (and > possibly participate in) that I will try to stop.
I have no personal anger toward you either. In fact, I have tried to be angry at you and I can't. I keep thinking about your emergency room stories and I start laughing again.
> Face it. The action of harassing another person for what they ARE is the > basic definition of racism and prejudice. Meow is *prejudiced* against > those it does not agree with and it acts in the same exact way racists > do.
That's the kind of horseshit I would expect from Rorik, not from you. Look through my posts again and you will see that so far from labeling all Asatruar as racist, I have engaged in civil dialogues with many of the Asatruar on a.r.a, and stated on numerous occasions that our similarities as members of the human race are far more important than the differences in how we worship or whether we worship.
> There is NO difference between the phrase "greedy Jew" and "Vjiking > Wannabe", "drunken Irishman" and "rubber hjelmeted Vjiking". Namecalling > is namecalling, harassment is harassment. The only difference between > provocative acts aimed at Jews or Blacks and the same acts directed > against other groups on the net is the "claim" of Meow to be > anti-racist. Sorry, that does NOT fly. Meowers may not be 'racists' but > they ARE prejudiced, mean spirited and vindictive.
Then what would you call someone who said something like this, in http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=553083613 to someone (Rebecca, that is) who was just tryin' to help?
"I'm... Well... I'm NOT speechless... I'm bloody APPALLED!
So much for your 'impartiality' ... (I just erased what
I was going to call you)
And so much for me *trusting* you or ANYONE on this stinking
shit heap!
I'm so fucking sick of this shit I could vomit! You hypocritical,
nasty, vandalizing.... I vcannot THINK of a word bad enough...
YOU have driven me off this group! I don trust you, I don't
trust your fuckbuddies, I don't trust anyone.
I'm fucking GONE!
Referee my fucking ASS!
Yes, I WILL say what I erased up there...
BITCH! I hope your rapist's sperm clotted in your skull, because
it's a HELL of a lot more use to you than any remnants of brain
matter would EVER be, you cunt!
I'll see you in COURT you Meowwhore!
God DAMN You!"
Do you stand by these words too?
> Anyone who denies that ought to ask Maryann Kehoe.
No thanks. I like the job I have right now.
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