Subject: Re: REPOST: Re: The '98 awards - results Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:22:59 -0600 From: J. Raoul Xemblinosky III <raoulx@guido.bungmunch.edu> Newsgroups: alt.evil, alt.flame, alt.fan.hell-flame-wars, alt.genius.big.daddy.zeus, alt.fan.karl-malden.nose
LBig Daddy Zeus wrote: > > "J. Raoul Xemblinosky III" <raoulx@pontiac.bungmunch.edu> wrote: > > >Big Daddy Zeus wrote: > >> > >> "J. Raoul Xemblinosky III" <raoulx@pontiac.bungmunch.edu> wrote: > >> > >> >Naw, I only said that to piss you off. It worked. > >> > > >> ... > >> > >> I wish I knew the frito bandito song... > > > >I'm sure it's out there on the Net somewhere. > > > You just wait.... > > <snip, you already whined that> > > >> >I posted articles to no.alt.flame referring to Norwegians as "Weejuns" > >> >and "Ljutefisk." The Norwegians responded in kind. Nobody was hurt, > >> >either > >> >physically or emotionally. You, on the other hand, posted what you now > >> >call "flames and trolls" disparaging African-Americans to a flame group > >> >created for, and dedicated to, the sole purpose of stirring up hatred > >> >against African-Americans. > >> > > >> To which nobody was hurt and I was responded to in kind., the same as > >> yours. > > > >How do you know nobody was hurt? It would indeed be an exaggeration (and > >an unfair one at that) to imply that you had anything to do with the > >tragic pickup truck killing in Texas last year. But how can you be sure > >that alt.flame.NIGGERS, a net.haven created by net.racists for the sole > >end of stirring up and fanning hatred against African Americans hasn't > >been instrumental in empowering the people who read it to practice real > >life discrimination against African Americans if and when given the > >chance? > > > I am not even going to bother answering that. I suppose it is likely > that Bill Clinton got horny after reading some porn spam and decided > to get Monica to suck his dick and stick a cigar in her twat. The analogy is more appropriate than you could have dreamed. Clinton's libido is so amped up that the crack of dawn probably makes him horny. Whereas you and your alt.flame.niggers buddies get your rocks off at the mere idea of having power over African Americans. > Trust me, No fucking way, Dimas. > the arguments and comments in afn aren't enough to drive > anyone to do anything. So you say. But the article titles alone are enough to give the lie to your frantic backpedaling. > >> >It is an honor to be termed "scum" by a net.racist of your illustrious > >> >reputation. > >> > > >> I still can't believe you are tolerate of racism to others so long as > >> it isn't towards African Americans. > > > >I challenge you to provide me with examples of racism directed at > >Norwegians, Italians, or Australians in the United States that could > >even begin to compare with the racism directed at African Americans > >in the United States. > > > I really don't believe there is an example anyone could provide that > would come near the racism directed towards African Americans except > that of Native Americans. You just shot your own lamentable attempt to counterflame me right in the ass. > It doesn't make your racism acceptable, Raoul. Using the terms "ljutefisk," "Weejun," and "Guido" in bona fide flame groups is not racism, Dimas. > >> >If you were really that big of a badass, you wouldn't feel the need to > >> >boast about your "achievements." > >> > > >> Sometimes I just like to rub people's nose in it all. Don't cry, it > >> looks bad for you. > > > >Crying? I was simply pointing out your own insecurities about your > >perception of your UseNet reputation. If you have to go around thumping > >your chest and yelling about what a badass you are, you really mustn't > >be much of a badass at all. > > > Are you done crying yet? Crying? If you had actually accomplished something worthwhile in your career on UseNet, you wouldn't have to keep boasting about it. > Does this have anything to do with racism? You snipped the part where I pointed out that Biilbert's racist "Taco Bell" articles were posted to ALS, which is not a flame group. You then began a bizarre pattern of bragging about what you claim HFW has done to ALS and whining about how mean the people in ALS were to poor picked on HFW. > >> >Can you provide any evidence of real life racist acts directed against > >> >any of these nationalities over the last year? > >> > > >> Not off the top of my head, society doesn't search for instances like > >> that. If an Australian man was killed in the same way Byrd was here > >> in Texas people would be looking for other means of a motive. > > > >There is no point in searching for such instances. They do not exist. > > > I am sure you are right about that, does it make racism towards others > acceptable? Using the terms "ljutefisk," "Weejun," and "Guido" in bona fide flame groups is not racism, Dimas. > >> The fact that you don't hear about racism towards other people does > >> not diminish the fact that you posted racist comments about > >> Norwegians, Australians and Italians. Stop dancing around the issues. > > > >You cannot escape your real contributions toward racism against African > >Americans by accusing me of using the terms "Ljutefisk" and "Guido" > >to whip up a non-existent racist frenzy against Norwegians and Italians. > > > No, posts to a FLAME newsgroup do not contribute to racism against > African Americans any more than your posts about Norwegians and > Italians. You're conveniently forgetting (as usual) that alt.flame.niggers is not a legitimate flame newsgroup, but a forum for net.racists like you and your friends to egg each other on to new lows of anti-African American rhetoric. > Mike admitted his role and apologized to those he may have > offended. Which was, no doubt, virtually nobody. > There is no "NON-EXISTENT RACIST FRENZY" because your posts weren't > mean to be racial slurs focusing on stereotypes of Italians, > Norwegains and Australians. Why, Dimas! Did you come up with that all by yourself or did you actually read what I've been writing? Of course the use of the terms "ljutefisk," "Weejun," and "Guido" in bona fide flame groups is not racism, Dimas. > There is no argument, shut your fucking > face. You mean that you have no argument. > >> >As you admit below, it was also the memories of flamers who refused to > >> >be associated with HFW solely because of your widespread fame as a net > >> >racist. > >> > > >> Flamers that are no longer on Usenet. Flamers that also retracted > >> their statements about me, DKIA on Usenet in the flame groups no less. > > > >Where did they post the retractions? > > > DKIA did in alt.flame. Where? > I didn't say that Gabe did his publicly. > > >> If I recall, you respect DKIA or at least you did respect DKIA, ask > >> him if he believes Tom is a racist and I bet he says no. > > > >I thought Allen's stuff was pretty damned good, even if we did not > >always see eye to eye. His opinion would count a good deal more in my > >estimation than yours would. But in the final judgement, I have to rely > >more on what I have seen than on what I have heard from others. > > > Too bad your judgement means squat. To you, no doubt. I am strangely cheered by that idea. > >> >A flame group <snip> > > > >alt.flame.NIGGERS isn't a legitimate flame group at all, but a net.haven > >created by net.racists for the sole purpose of stirring up hatred > >against > >African Americans. > > > Is no.alt.flame and aus.flame are newsgroups for FLAME then so is > alt.flame.niggers, don't be suck a hypocritical fucking whore, you can > see that this isn't getting you anywhere. You are just recycling a > bunch of nonsense to get me to drop this argument. I am not dropping > this because you are wrong. Your syntax is breaking down here, Dimas. The newsgroup alt.flame.niggers has as part of its name what is probably the most hateful racist slur in the English language. The name was chosen to reflect the mindset of those who frequent it. > >> >You may well have convinced yourself, and possibly Tiimy too. And if > >> >Slinn were still alive, he would probably have fallen for your screaming > >> >and whining act too. But that's about it. > >> > > >> You have no proof that Tom's posts to Usenet reflect his real life > >> activity and I challenge you to substantiate your claims with REAL > >> LIFE facts. > > > >Biilbert bombarded a non-flame newsgroup with "Taco Bell Hernandez" > >posts. > >That is a real life fact. > > > There was no "bombardment" and posts to Usenet are NOT REAL LIFE > FACTS! > > You made your bed when you said that real life actions proved racist > intent. YOU ARE BEING A FUCKING HYPOCRITE. You are yelling again. > >> >Gareth was desperate because HFW needed reinforcements in the worst > >> >possible way. And that's what he got when he signed you up. > >> > > >> No, HFW had DKIA and Gabe before I joined up. > > > >DKIA bailed because you joined. > > > So they didn't need "back-up", fuckhead. Yes they did. HFW has historically needed all the help it could get. > >> >Like "Guido," "Ljutefisk," and "Weejun." Compared to the racist slop > >> >you > >> >routinely vomited out in your days as one of the most prominent Kluxers > >> >on > >> >alt.flame.niggers, "Guido," "Ljutefisk," and "Weejun" are practically > >> >terms of endearment. > >> > > >> No, the terms you use were racist regardless of the level you consider > >> them to be. Call an Italian on the street Guido or Pizzahead and see > >> what he thinks. > > > >I'm not an Italian, so I wouldn't do it. > > > But you will do it from the safety of a newsgroup, eh? In a flame newsgroup, yes. In a non-flame newsgroup, no. > You know it > would offend an Italian, that is why you wouldn't call him those > names. In a flame newsgroup, yes. In a non-flame newsgroup, no. > >> Call an Australian a RooFucker and see what he > >> thinks. > > > >I'm not an Australian, so I wouldn't call an Australian a RooFucker on > >the street. But I'm sure I have referred to Australians as RooFuckers > >in aus.flame and other legitimate flame groups. > > > Notice the "legitimate" shit, a fucking wasteland of a group who has > NO REGULARS is supposed to convince me that it is any more legitimate > than afn? Your warped sense of esthetics has no bearing on the point at issue here. The newsgroup aus.flame's title indicates that flameage from and about Australians is its legitimate topic. Do you want me to bait you into saying "The term 'nigger' is not a racist term" again? > You wouldn't call someone a RooFucker because it is offensive and a > racial slur. No, I would call someone a RooFucker in a flame newsgroup if I felt it would make that person angry. I would not call anyone a RooFucker in a non-flame newsgroup. > >> Fuck you, you can't claim that taco bell is racist without > >> acknowledging that RooFucker, PizzaHead, Guido, and Lutefisk are > >> racist. Just admit that I am right. > > > >You're full of shit. If I posted these things in non-flame groups, you > >just might have a leg to stand on. But I don't. Whereas Biilbert flooded > >ALS, which is a non-flame group, with "Taco Bell Hernandez" posts. The > >sheer volume of these posts gives the lie to your whining that Biilbert > >wasn't indulging in racial slurs. > > > The content is what matters you fucking whore, not the context. It > doesn't matter if the comments were made in a flame group, they could > still be offensive to someone and you might cause someone to tie an > Italian to a truck and drag him down the road. STOP BEING A FUCKING > HYPOCRITE. You're yelling again. And as you yourself indicated above, there have been no racially motivated hate crimes against Italian Americans within recent memory. Try to be more consistent. > >> >Since I never really believed that "James Kirk" was really involved with > >> >Sandra Bullock, Teri Hatcher, Gillian Anderson, or Neve Campbell, I > >> >didn't consider your little "revelation" worthy of further comment. Unless > >> >you wanted me to compliment you for finally figuring out what everyone > >> >else has already known for months. > >> > > >> It proves my fucking point that people can say a lot of fucking things > >> but that doesn't make it fucking true. Just admit that I am right. > > > >You sound angry, Dimas. If it will make you feel better, I suppose I can > >admit that you're right that "Kirk" was never involved with any of these > >women. > > > I shouldn't SOUND ANGRY considering you shouldn't be hearing a fucking > thing. I AM right about that and I AM right that just because it is > posted to a newsgroup doesn't make it fucking true. If you want to insist that Kirk isn't fucking Neve Campbell because you *say* he isn't fucking Neve Campbell, be my guest. You can even yell it if you like. You're only making a bigger horse's ass out of yourself. > >> >YM "Dimas Nava." You've already admitted as much. > >> > > >> BULL FUCKING SHIT, I did not admit anything to you. > > > >Stop screaming, Dimas. > > > Hearing things? When we first started this conversation, you weren't typing anything in all capital letters. Now you are. I think you are getting angry. > >> I denied your > >> claims that I tried to contact you last time but you ignored those > >> facts. I am not and never was Jester or John Prophet, just like my > >> name isn't Nathan whatever he said. > > > >What you said was that you never tried to recruit me in our E-mail > >correspondence for the purpose of joining HFW. Nothing more. Nothing > >less. > > > I have said that publicly, several times that I am not Jester, As you just said above, "Just because it is posted to a newsgroup doesn't make it fucking true." > you are > obviously implying that I am considering you and he had email > conversation. Restate this in coherent English. > >> >I doubt that either of them would be happy to read that they "changed > >> >their minds" about disapproving of your career as a net.racist. > >> > > >> If you see them you can ask them, I think I have Gabe's email and I > >> know that Tom has DKIA's phone number if you don't take my word for > >> it. This isn't something I would bother lying about. > > > >My point, Dimas, was that neither of them would appreciate hearing that > >their opinion of your racist posts to UseNet had changed. > > > I wonder what they would think about your racists posts to Italians, > Australians and Norwegians. They would laugh, no doubt, at your idea that "Guido," "Weejun," and "Ljutefisk" could be construed as potent racial slurs capable of causing outbreaks of hate crimes. > >> >Correct. > >> > > >> Okay, then you admit to making racist comments. > > > >Wrong. I stated that I used ethnic language like "Guido," "Weejun," and > >the dreaded "Ljutefisk" in groups such as aus.flame, no.alt.flame, and > >it.discussioni.litigi. You're the one who calls them racist comments. > >I said they were ethnic slurs, albeit trifling ones, especially when > >compared to the racist vomit you horked up all over UseNet when you > >first > >showed up. > > > YOU ARE A RACIST BECAUSE YOU USED ETHNIC SLURS BASED ON STEREOTYPES OF > ITALIANS, NORWEGIANS, AND ASUTRALIANS. CALLING THEM "ETHNIC SLURS" IS > THE SAME AS CALLING THEM "RACIST COMMENTS". You're really losing it now, Dimas. Didn't you just say "There is no "NON-EXISTENT RACIST FRENZY" because your posts weren't mean to be racial slurs focusing on stereotypes of Italians, Norwegains and Australians.?" Yup, that's what you said a few paragraphs ago. Changed your mind again? > >> >The term "nigger" is *not* a racist term? And you say *my* judgement > >> >is clouded? > >> > > >> I did revise my statement in Egan's piggy back. "Nigger" is a racist > >> term derived from Negro but it has several meanings one of which > >> refers to lazy and worthless people. > > > >Are you implying that African Americans are by nature lazy and > >worthless? > > > No, I would make the comment if that is what I felt, I did not make > that comment. Then why were you referring to that particular alternate meaning? > >> SEE THAT? I ADMIT MY ERRORS. You should try it once in a while. > > > >Stop yelling. If I make any errors, I will admit them. I promise. > > > Liar, you already made several errors that you can't admit to. Bah. I've been playing you like a violin. > >> >I suppose it's meant as a compliment when a Kluxer calls someone else a > >> >Kluxer. But you are still welcome to stick the word Kluxer up your ass. > >> > > >> Are you going to commit any hate crimes against poor and unsuspecting > >> Italians today? They wouldn't be expecting you since racism towards > >> Italians doesn't exist in your make believe world. > > > >Why do you label Italians as "poor" and "unsuspecting?" > > > I am being sarcastic, the entire paragraph was sarcastic. > > Why do you condone racism toward Italians? Using the term "Guido" in it.discussioni.litigi groups is not racism, Dimas. > >> >My role in what? The provocation tactics that HFW employed in ALS? > >> > > >> Have you no remorse for causing so many als'ers pain? All you had to > >> do was stop using your sig > > > >Ooh, that nasty sigfile. I just knew it was that nasty sigfile that hurt > >your feelings. > > > Not my feelings. Your pride, perhaps? Mheh heh heh heh. > >> and flaming HFW in als. I admit, it was a > >> pretty good troll but if you genuinely cared about als you would have > >> gone along. I wonder if they realize you trolled Gareth, Harden and > >> myself into als. > > > >Even for you that's a stretch. I had never even heard of ALS until your > >dead friend Gareth Slinn forged articles in my name to ALS. > > > But that didn't stop you from continuing to use the sig file and flame > HFW, did it? Ooh, that nasty sigfile. Weren't you the guy who said that text on UseNet doesn't offend you? > >> >As well you should, given your "history" on UseNet. > >> > > >> Which has been stellar. > > > >Stellar, as in what? You haven't accomplished anything that hasn't been > >accomplished before. > > > I became God faster than anyone. Do you mean to say that you became immortal, or omniscient, or omnipotent faster than anyone? Now I know you're destined for the laughing academy. > >> Honestly, I have stopped posting in AFN over > >> two years ago and I don't give a shit about them or the posts I made. > >> I have contributed to alt.flame more over the last two years than > >> nearly anyone else here. > > > >More what? More bilge? It certainly wasn't UseNet Performance Art. > > > If there was no HFW or no Big Daddy Zeus the lot of you meowers would > be exchanging recipes for pies and cakes. We meowers were creating world-class UPA before HFW ever showed up, and we will be creating world-class UPA long after HFW is forgotten. > >> I don't care if people do not forget about > >> my posts to afn, even though you are the only one here that was > >> actually present, > > > >Do you mean to say that I am the only alt.flame regular still here > >from your old palmy days as alt.flame's leading Kluxer? > > > Are you trying to bore me out of this thread? Showing you the delusions of your ways does become rather tedious. > >> I just think it is pathetic that every couple of > >> months a flame war develops over it. > > > >I just think it is revolting that you said these things in front of the > >whole UseNet world in the first place. > > > No, I said them in one newsgroup out of 70,000+. Read around the world. > >> >I'm not the one who got his start on UseNet sucking Kluxer ass, Dimas. > >> > > >> No, but you are the one who condones racism against Australians, > >> Norwegians and Italians since real life hate crimes are not committed > >> against them in America. > > > >If there are no real life hate crimes being committed, where is the > >racism, Dimas? > > > So now racism only equals hate crimes?!!?!?!? Hate crimes are indeed the most accurate indicator of racism. > >> >There will never be any such tragedy, Dimas. Your Kluxer buddies don't > >> >persecute Australians, Norwegians, or Italians. > >> > > >> No, you do that well enough for anyone. > > > >How many Australians, Norwegians, and Italians have I lynched? Or kept > >from enjoying their human rights? Or fired from jobs because they were > >Australians, Norwegians, or Italians? > > > How many African Americans have I done any of those things to? If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. By siding with notorious net.racists like the ones to be found in afn, you are empowering others to commit these crimes even if you do not commit them yourself. > >> You also said that since racism isn't displayed against certain ethnic > >> backgrounds in real life that using racial slurs against those people > >> is okay. > >> > >> You also said that since these people don't take offense on Usenet > > > >Get your shit straight, Dimas. I said because these people don't take > >offense at what they read in legitimately constituted flame groups. > > > You don't know that offense was not taken. How do you know that > NOBODY took offense to your RACIST COMMENTS? Still shouting. > How would you know if anyone took offense to mine? I thought you said you were "flaming and trolling." If so, you were trying to give offense whether you succeeded or not. > >> that it is okay to call them racially derogatory names. > > > >Again, get your shit straight. Even you can't seriously believe that > >"Weejun," "Guido," and the dreaded "Ljutefisk" are racially derogatory > >to the extent of the bilge that you flung around alt.flame.niggers. > > > Does that make them okay to use? In legitimate flame groups, yet. > >> >We'll know for sure if and when Tiimy gets my Altopia account yanked for > >> >responding to this thread. > >> > > >> I wish him luck. > > > >I have no doubt whatsoever that you do. > > > First thing you got right in this thread so far. That Tiimy Thorne is a netcop and that you'd like him to do your dirty work by getting my Altopia account yanked? > >> >How many people besides you and your sockpuppet Tiimy believe the terms > >> >"Guido" and "Weejun" actually perpetuate racist stereotypes which lead > >> >to real life persecution? > >> > > >> I do not believe that any Usenet postings lead to real life > >> persecution. > <Snip, your cut and paste answer will not suffice> Chickenshit. > >> I do believe that if considering Taco Bell a racial slur then the > >> stereotypes you have used in the past must be based on your outline of > >> Harden's posts. > > > >Then you are practicing the same old selective reasoning you have shown > >elsewhere in this thread. Used in a flame group, "Taco Bell" would still > >be a slur, albeit (as I keep saying and you keep snipping) a very small > >one, and well in keeping with the language tossed around in the flame > >groups. Where Biilbert showed his true colors was when he flooded ALS, > >which was not and is not a flame group, with posts attempting to make > >fun of Moonhawk's Mexican American heritage. > > > Harden did not flood als with Taco Bell posts. I know you found exactly TWO in DejaNews. All that means is that Biilbert X-No-Archived his posts in accordance with the HFW tradition. > As far as selective reasoning goes...PKB. You mean, "As far as selective reasoning goes...HFW." > >> Do you agree or disagree with my statement above? Isn't it > >> conceivable that you could offend someone by justifying your slurs in > >> such a manner? > > > >Not in the flame groups, which is the only place where I use terms like > >"Guido," Weejun," and the dreaded "Ljutefisk." > > > You are saying it is conceivable for someone to MURDER BECAUSE OF > USENET POSTING BUT NOT BE OFFENDED BY YOUR RACIAL SLURS?!!?!? Oversimplifying again, Dimas. I'm not engaging in racial slurs, and I never said UseNet posts caused murder either. I said that the sort of "flaming and trolling" (to use your own words) that goes on in afn empowers people to commit hate crimes against African Americans by creating an atmosphere in which hatred is the norm and outlandish statements thereof are not only tolerated but encouraged. > Just give it up, you lost any shred of credibility. With you. That's fine with me. > >> >You're not going to kick anybody in the anything, Dimas, until you > >> >dislodge your foot from your mouth. And so far you've succeeded only > >> >in jamming it in there even deeper. > >> > > >> I have made ONE error in this entire article and I am man enough to > >> admit that error. You have made plenty and still will not acknowledge > >> any of them. I am truly disappointed in you, I might flame you but I > >> *had* a little respect for you. > > > >I'm not exactly doing this to win the respect of the legitimate flame > >world's most notorious racist, Dimas. Your opinion of me couldn't > >possibly matter any less to me than it has ever since "BIG DADDY ZUES" > >first showed up spewing his anti-Black vitriol. > > > I realize this isn't a matter of respect, it is a matter of you > admitting that you are solidly wrong. I have to admit that I like being called 'solidly wrong" by the idiot who said "The term 'nigger' is not a racist term." - J. Raoul Xemblinosky III =-=-=-=-=-=-= -- . --- .-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= a.f.k-m.n | "The term 'nigger' is not a racist term." VoAU (L) | -- Dimas Nava, Racial Theorist HTH/HAND/M | 14 January 1999 - http://extra.newsguy.com/~shpxurnq/ =-=-=-=-= mhm 15x12 =-=-=-=-=-=
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