Subject: Re: SNUH: Mindless Uncreative Word-Fuckery or Unworthless Creative Mind-Fuckery?
You Make The Call ********* POSSIBLE PRIZES************ (was Re: "Databasix are
as necessary for freedom of speech to troll"? Re: cmsg newgroup alt.databasux)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:10:30 -0700
From: queenie@bungmunch.org (The Queen of Cans and Jars)
Org: lazy pets and luxurious darlings
Froups: alt.snuh, alt.tv.real-world, alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.romath,
alt.queen-of-cans-and-jars, news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
Dean Humphries <snuh_x@NOSPAMPLEACEhotmail.com> wrote:
> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >
> > Russell B <mailme@here.not> wrote:
> >
> > > Dean Humphries <snuh_x@NOSPAMPLEACEhotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >Russell B wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Dean Humphries <snuh_x@NOSPAMPLEACEhotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >Russell B wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Dean Humphries <snuh_x@NOSPAMPLEACEhotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >Russell B wrote:
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Dean Humphries <snuh_x@NOSPAMPLEACEhotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >inLOLtenLOLdantLOL@mailandnews.co.uk.invalid wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:55:25 -0400, something originated at
> > > >> >> >> >> Liberal Minded <liberalminded@email.com> and moved slowly
> > > >> >> >> >> towards alt.config - it looked something like...this:
> > > >> >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >> }
> > > >> >> >> >> }
> > > >> >> >> >> }-= Hawk =- wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> }
> > > >> >> >> >> }> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:57:09 -0600, knightshadow
> > > >> >> >> >> }> <knightshadow@whoever.com> scribbled:
> > > >> >> >> >> }>
> > > >> >> >> >> }> >
> > > >> >> >> >> }> >What more needs to be said.
> > > >> >> >> >> }>
> > > >> >> >> >> }> Other than to note your pathetic obsession?
> > > >> >> >> >> }
> > > >> >> >> >> }Why the concern Hawk? You ain't no Databasux troll are you?
> > > >> >> >> >> }I would hate to think that you associate with them.
> > > >> >> >> >> }
> > > >> >> >> >> }btw I see the final ng was made for that and it is,
> > > >> >> >> >> }alt.databasux.udp-udp-udp.die-die-die.gary-bunhole
> > > >> >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >> Databasix, IMHO, are as necessary for freedom of speech to
> > > >> >> >> >> troll, as altnet are.
> > > >> >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> >Only thing, they seem to have a problem discerning the
> > > >> >> >> >difference between what is free speech and what is-as they
> > > >> >> >> >refer to it-*abusive posting*. Now, *Snuh* is considered
> > > >> >> >> >*abusive* posting cause according to them only one syllable
> > > >> >> >> >changes in reply. But when a *meow* cascade thread gets
> > > >> >> >> >posted to UseNet, that's an entirely different matter-that's
> > > >> >> >> >not abusive to databasix-even though *nothing* changes. Now
> > > >> >> >> >every Friday evening, Rob Cipher *broadcasts* Radio Free
> > > >> >> >> >Cipher into alt.hackers.malicious-sometimes hundreds of
> > > >> >> >> >posts where he puts the title of a song up and a line or two
> > > >> >> >> >of lyrics-if that isn't Spam I don't know what is. It's
> > > >> >> >> >databasix's server to do what they please with-but let it be
> > > >> >> >> >known that they're are no longer about freedom of speech.
> > > >> >> >> >They hide behind the guise of "we don't condone abusive
> > > >> >> >> >posting", yet they continue to let RFC and Meow cascades
> > > >> >> >> >reign-is there really a difference between the content of
> > > >> >> >> >all three of these? When this subject matter comes up they
> > > >> >> >> >scream that it's a bunch of whining-yet they have never
> > > >> >> >> >answered the question. Instead of debate they huff and puff
> > > >> >> >> >and stamp their feet.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Dear Dean Humphries:
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> I do not "get" this sudden tergiversation of yours on the
> > > >> >> >> subject of DataBasix. Did they TOS you while I was in Alaska?
> > > >> >> >> Please reply without delay on the bulletin board, as a
> > > >> >> >> physical disability prevents me from lifting a finger to do
> > > >> >> >> the appropriate research on Deja. TIA.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >It's quite a story-they put a ban on Snuh
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Hmm? Meaning a ban on *you* as the "Emperor"
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Don't confuse the Empire of teh Snuh with me acting as an Emperor.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> or a ban on those snuh-buh-guh cascades?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Correct.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> And if that latter, does it matter to them whether there's unique
> > > >> >> content from entry to entry (comments in brackets, ASCII art etc.),
> > > >> >> and are there actually different standards for Meow cascades?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Yep. Go to the nose and read all about it-nowadays there are
> > > >> >standards of ontopicness at Meow/UPA.
> > > >>
> > > >> Weeeeellll, I'll try, but I've been away for three weeks and that's a
> > > >> lot of posts to wade through, particularly in a group that prides
> > > >> itself on its almighty post count.
> > > >>
> > > >> So, if you could help a brotha out with some details I'd be much
> > > >> obliged. Specifically, *which* of the Meowers and UPAs are now
> > > >> claiming to hold up standards of "ontopicness," or is it just the
> > > >> Burnores and their server?
> > > >
> > > >Databasix, for sure-Gary informed me that other db'ers were embarassed
> > > >to be associated with Snuh.
> > > >The alt.non-sequiters for sure don't like Snuh'ers
> >
> > i've never heard anyone from alt.non.sequitur, excepting myself, express
> > any opposition to snuh.
>
> Are you going to make me dig-up Axel's thread on this?
> Sorry, a.n-s is decidely anti-Snuh.
axel is not the ruler of alt.non.sequitur. i know which post you're
referring to, and it was *not* intended to represent alt.non.sequitur's
point of view. nor, for that matter, was it intended to represent
meow's point of view. you know how i feel about the fact that that post
was even made.
> > > Snuh-ers or snuh-ing? There's a difference. For example, I like
> > > Snuh-ers, but I personally never found any of that snuh-buh-guh bullshit
> > > very interesting (OTOH, neither am I fascinated by the endless
> > > harping--months and years after the respective facts--on Vjikings,
> > > werewolves, Wollman, Maryanne Kehoe, Susan Groppi, or whatever-the-fuck
> > > that some Meowers seem to find so urgent).
> > >
> > > >as does Sergi, Menjy, Ari, Queenie
> > >
> > > Oh? Queenie, is this true?
> >
> > i dislike snuh. i like dean just fine, but i dislike snuh. dean has
> > elected to continue speaking to me, even though i've expressed my
> > dislike of his creation, so i assume we're on pretty good terms.
> > unless, of course, he's trolling me for some nefarious purpose. which,
> > by the way, would be a very dumb thing to do.
>
> Nope, Meow stuff shouldn't follow off into real life.
i'm a nice person. i wouldn't troll you on a personal level.
> I'd say we're on good terms-but we don't agree about Snuh and the
> debacle around it.
we definitely don't, but i think we've done a good job of speaking our
minds without offending each other.
> > > A Deja search didn't reveal much here: just her asking somebody,
> > > rather crabbily, to keep snuh out of a cascade. Hardly a ringing
> > > denunciation; but I'll let her speak for herself if she wants to.
> >
> > meow.
>
> snuh
home made pepsi
> > > >and Checkmate-off the top of my head.
> > >
> > > Hmmmm. Well, I'll give you this much: you surely seem to have wadded up
> > > the panties of some folks who you'd think would know better than to let
> > > themselves get bent out of shape over *content* on Usenet.
> >
> > i used this phrase in an email to someone, but i liked it so much i'm
> > going to use it again:
> >
> > i'll say this much for snuh: it's got people talking.
> > as an art form i decry it, but as a phenomenon it's not half bad.
>
> Agreed.
> For something that has been decreed the worst UPA *ever* it sure gets
> discussed a lot.
your name will certainly go down in upa history, dean.
> Seems like some trolls are getting trolled hard.
i hate that it all has to be so nasty. i really do. if it was up to
me, i'd make you guys sit still and hold hands until you could all just
get along.
> > > >> >Did you ever think you'd live so long to see this? And what's the
> > > >> >most mincing of all ironies-Meow started when some Beavis and
> > > >> >Butthead fans were told that they couldn't crosspost into the Ivy
> > > >> >League-ridden alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. We were told that we
> > > >> >couldn't crosspost Snuh into the nose (among other places).
> > > >>
> > > >> "We" meaning all of your Snuh plas, whether DataBasix
> > > >> accountholders or not? And by whom?
> > > >
> > > >Snuh crossposting (out of alt.snuh) was banned by databsix users-by
> > > >Belinda Burnore.
> > > >She said she *fucking hated it* and found it abusive.
> > >
> > > Of the net?
> >
> > what dean is failing to mention is that he and his cohorts were posting
> > snuh cascades in order to troll for complaints. they were using it to
> > flood groups - not to merely annoy or provoke, but in a more destructive
> > manner.
>
> Do you have a quote from me saying this?
> I Snuh for fun, can you explain to me when you can read my mind and tell
> me otherwise?
you can sit there and tell me a hundred times that it's all for fun, but
i just don't buy it. i know that the entire philosophy of snuh is not
reflected in the snuh cascade, just as the entire philosophy of meow is
not encapsulated in that singular word. i know you well enough to know
that you believe there's more to snuh than mindless cascading. but to
try and deny that you've ever used it to purposely irritate is really
stretching it. did you invade alt.folklore.urban just for fun, or did
you do it because you knew there were particularly virulent netcops
there? tell the truth, please!
> > you and i both know, russell b, that annoying and provoking
> > people is one of the most coolest and funnest things there is to do on
> > the global usenet. but flooding a group with monosyllabic blather
> > simply for the purpose of stimulating the netcopping properties of
> > certain individuals is really not too cool a thing to do
>
> meow?
yeah yeah, whatever. that's not the only thing meowers do, blah blah
blah. i'm reeeaaaaalllllly sick of this part of the whole thing.
trying to pit two four-letter words against each other is pointless.
besides, everyone knows that GREASE is the word.
the empire of meow continues to grow and evolve. what's snuh up to
besides causing shitloads of trouble for darn near everyone? you've
created a big thing - go ahead and *do* something with it. something
that doesn't involve beating us all up with mindless repetition, please.
make a difference - plant a tree - save the whales - do *anything* but
complain. i double-dare you. that's a personal challenge from queenie
to you, dean. prove to us all that there's a reason to respect snuh.
go on, you know you want to.
> > - especially
> > when the people who gave you *free* access to their news server have to
> > deal with complaints from their upstream provider as a result of your
> > activities.
>
>
> Belinda made it clear that Snuh was pulled because of her own decision
> to do so, not from pressure from UUnet.
the way i understand it, she made the decision based on not wanting to
have to continue to deal with complaints from uunet. if someone is
continually tracking mud through your house, day after day, do you just
keep silently cleaning up after them? or do you finally wise up and
insist that they take their muddy fucking shoes off before entering the
house?
> You mean a databasix'er garnered complaints from UseNet posting?
> Horrors!!!!1!!
oh, come on. you *know* that is not what this is about.
> > dean was asked (albeit perhaps not as nicely as he should
> > have been, i'll admit belinda was a bit snarky about it [which should
> > not be misconstrued as meaning that i disagree with that snarkiness]) to
> > stop, and he decided to make a political issue out of it.
>
>
> When said server cruises off the reputation of not censoring their
> subscribers, hell, yes, I'm going to bring this to light.
but it's hardly as if they've prevented snuh from getting on the air!
there's snuh aplenty, as far as the goddam eye can see! you have other
servers from which to snuh! your inalienable right to snuh has hardly
been impinged upon, my friend! you are currently free to send snuh
cascades to any newsfroup in the world! the databasix news server will
even pick them up!
so tell me, please, where is the censorship? snuh has not been removed.
no one is trying to keep it off usenet. databasix does not want snuh
cascades *posted from their server* - they are not asking other servers
to deny the cascades, they are not filtering or cancelling posts with
the word 'snuh' in them - why, i can read all the snuh cascades i want
using my databasix news account! they simply asked that the cascades
not be posted from there. keeping your house clean and engaging in
censorship are two entirely different things.
> > > >Meow'ers asked us to keep it out of Meow.
> > >
> > > Did they ask nicely?
> >
> > i really didn't see any one particular meower telling anyone where or
> > what they could post. i'm sure someone else can post proof of this, but
> > even if they do, i think it's just silly. meow is a nebulous thing at
> > best, with no sharply defined borders, and telling someone to "keep
> > (something) out of meow" is like saying "don't breathe air."
>
>
> OK.
> I take that as an open invitation to Snuh at Meow.
i don't meow because anyone invited me to. no one has ever come up to
me, literally or figuratively, and said 'hey you, queenie. come here
and do this. all the other kids are doing it, and you'll have ever so
much fun!' i gravitated towards the meow groups because i saw that the
people involved in them were worth spending time with. i've never met a
smarter, funnier, more literate group of people in my life. (and if any
of you [you know who you are!] have read this far, i would like to take
this opportunity to bend my knees to you in you the most heartfelt
<curtsy> i have ever offered. thanks for making usenet a fun place to
be.
for a while, i was reluctant to call myself a meower. hell, i even had
to adjust my brain a little to get used to the fact that i'm a usenet
performance artist. when i first heard the term, it's not something i
imagined i'd ever call myself. i actually scoffed at it! and meow,
that was something that 'those boys' did, the ones who were always
crossposting weird stuff into alt.non.sequitur, which is where i began
my life on usenet.
but i say to you now that i am a meower. not because i post from the
'nose, or because i participate in a meow-linux-tittyfuck-okra-loafhead
cascade every now and then, but because my association with meow has
shown me how to have freedom where it counts - in my heart.
if thou shalt confess with thy mouth meow, and shalt believe in thine
heart meow meow, thou shalt be saved.
at least, that's what don knotts told my cousin.
> Awful thanks.
> I just say that queenie said it was cool.
i've expressed dismay at endless snuh cascades, but i've never tried to
prevent you, or anyone else, from posting them.
not that my approval would mean a damn thing anyhow:
fluffy owns news. you and i are just lucky to be along for the ride.
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